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	<title>Comments on: Verbosity</title>
	<link>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/</link>
	<description>AAaaaaahhhhrrrrrrr!</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Aristotle Pagaltzis</title>
		<link>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-2141</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 09:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-2141</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;I don’t remember having a performance problem. Do you have one?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t remember having a performance problem. Do you have one?</p>
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		<title>by: Jules</title>
		<link>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-2136</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 18:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-2136</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;To make it fast.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To make it fast.</p>
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		<title>by: Aristotle Pagaltzis</title>
		<link>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-1168</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-1168</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;Why would I do that in assembler?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would I do that in assembler?</p>
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		<title>by: Alex Bunardzic</title>
		<link>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-1167</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-1167</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;I think assembler syntax is perfect.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Wow, as they say, there is first time for everything.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I've never heard anyone praise assembler syntax as being perfect. I must say I'm intrigued now.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Maybe you could explain how would an equivalent of Rails syntax, something like:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;pre&gt;&lt;code&gt;validates_presence_of :name&lt;/code&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;

&lt;p&gt;translate into the assembler syntax? If that syntax is indeed perfect, as you claim, it should then render something even more expressive and intuitivelly easier to grasp than &lt;code&gt;validates_presence_of&lt;/code&gt; (which, for me at least, is as close as I've seen a programming language ever come to perfection).&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>I think assembler syntax is perfect.</p></blockquote>
<p>Wow, as they say, there is first time for everything.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never heard anyone praise assembler syntax as being perfect. I must say I&#8217;m intrigued now.</p>
<p>Maybe you could explain how would an equivalent of Rails syntax, something like:</p>
<pre><code>validates_presence_of :name</code></pre>
<p>translate into the assembler syntax? If that syntax is indeed perfect, as you claim, it should then render something even more expressive and intuitivelly easier to grasp than <code>validates_presence_of</code> (which, for me at least, is as close as I&#8217;ve seen a programming language ever come to perfection).</p>
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		<title>by: Aristotle Pagaltzis</title>
		<link>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-1160</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 00:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-1160</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;I think assembler syntax is perfect.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think assembler syntax is perfect.</p>
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		<title>by: Alex Bunardzic</title>
		<link>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-1147</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Mar 2006 02:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-1147</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;Patrick wrote:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;... syntax that does not require verbosity is ideal.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Assembler syntax does not require verbosity. Still, I, for one, wouldn't call that syntax ideal. Far from it! I think assembler non-verbose syntax sucks.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230; syntax that does not require verbosity is ideal.</p></blockquote>
<p>Assembler syntax does not require verbosity. Still, I, for one, wouldn&#8217;t call that syntax ideal. Far from it! I think assembler non-verbose syntax sucks.</p>
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		<title>by: Patrick Stinson</title>
		<link>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-1146</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Mar 2006 01:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-1146</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;To which the other fellow responded:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;And verbosity makes code easier to read. I don’t have to know anything to understand the code. Everything I need to know is there in front of me.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This is wrong. To code is to know. I hope he doesn't really plan to get anywhere not knowing anything. No matter what level of understanding you are shooting for by reading you should always read to understand.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Also, the code will ideally speak for itself. Comments are one thing, but syntax that does not require verbosity is ideal.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To which the other fellow responded:</p>
<blockquote><p>And verbosity makes code easier to read. I don’t have to know anything to understand the code. Everything I need to know is there in front of me.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This is wrong. To code is to know. I hope he doesn&#8217;t really plan to get anywhere not knowing anything. No matter what level of understanding you are shooting for by reading you should always read to understand.</p>
<p>Also, the code will ideally speak for itself. Comments are one thing, but syntax that does not require verbosity is ideal.</p>
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		<title>by: Seth Thomas Rasmussen</title>
		<link>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-1063</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2006 03:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-1063</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;That last statement about more abstract languages not forcing you to think about further abstraction is missing the point.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The real problem there sits at a higher level. It is the person that doesn't stop to think about what they're doing and how it could possibly be better.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That last statement about more abstract languages not forcing you to think about further abstraction is missing the point.</p>
<p>The real problem there sits at a higher level. It is the person that doesn&#8217;t stop to think about what they&#8217;re doing and how it could possibly be better.</p>
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		<title>by: ryan</title>
		<link>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-912</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2006 07:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-912</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;By, the way, I own &lt;a href=&quot;http://sup.rfluo.us/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://sup.rflou.us&lt;/a&gt;, should that be pointed at &lt;a href=&quot;http://java.sun.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;java.sun.com&lt;/a&gt;?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By, the way, I own <a href="http://sup.rfluo.us/">http://sup.rflou.us</a>, should that be pointed at <a href="http://java.sun.com">java.sun.com</a>?</p>
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		<title>by: Danno</title>
		<link>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-889</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lesscode.org/2005/12/28/verbosity/#comment-889</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;Alex, that's what I would call semantically specific.  Making a variable name bigger, longer, and very obvious doesn't provide a benefit over a variable name that's just as specific, but shorter and more terse.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If :has&lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt;belongs&lt;em&gt;to&lt;/em&gt;many were changed to :model&lt;em&gt;has&lt;/em&gt;many&lt;em&gt;other&lt;/em&gt;entities&lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt;belongs&lt;em&gt;to&lt;/em&gt;many&lt;em&gt;other&lt;/em&gt;entities it would be more verbose and even easier to understand to someone new to the code but it wouldn't be any more specific.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I'm not saying being verbose is bad in entirety, being just verbose enough is the moving target I want to aim at.  And I'm more railing against the sort of verbosity in Java.  I still don't understand having to create a class to run a program.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, that&#8217;s what I would call semantically specific.  Making a variable name bigger, longer, and very obvious doesn&#8217;t provide a benefit over a variable name that&#8217;s just as specific, but shorter and more terse.</p>
<p>If :has<em>and</em>belongs<em>to</em>many were changed to :model<em>has</em>many<em>other</em>entities<em>and</em>belongs<em>to</em>many<em>other</em>entities it would be more verbose and even easier to understand to someone new to the code but it wouldn&#8217;t be any more specific.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying being verbose is bad in entirety, being just verbose enough is the moving target I want to aim at.  And I&#8217;m more railing against the sort of verbosity in Java.  I still don&#8217;t understand having to create a class to run a program.</p>
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